Yup. I mean I’m not even in Arizona and I’m more resentful because of this law. It really has the opposite effect.

Gracias la_vaga. This is what I have heard too. Hopefully their will be an effort to fundraise to support the shortfall.

While I agree that the legislative assault against ethnic studies courses is based on overly simplistic premises, I must disagree with your assessment of Hispanic culture as under attack by an Anglo-American or white European viewpoint.

As a native-born Mexican, I can assure you that Mexican culture, and Latin American culture in general, is quite safe from the the sometimes-twisted interpretations projected onto it north of the border.

The newest Arizona legislative surprise may be in bad taste, but it is hardly a reason to view Mexicans as oppressed. The United States is, after all, a Western country, and it is only natural that it would want to project Western cultural values onto the next generation of American citizens. Similarly, Mexico and other Latin American countries attempt to project good, hardy Latin American values onto their most impressionable young minds. So do the Muslim Arabs teach their children traditional Muslim Arab values, the Chinese teach their children traditional Chinese values, and so on throughout the world.

We Mexicans are a free and independent people, working under dire conditions and endemic scarcity to build a better nation for our children, and we do not take kindly to the sort of pointless hate-mongering brewed up by certain U.S. politicos. But at the same time, we as a people are not inclined to regard ourselves as victims.

So take heart, fellow Mexicans and Latinos: work hard, live prudently, and forge ahead, so that, one day in the future, it may be your descendants who are flaunting their hard-earned wealth, culture, and power.

Marco, your argument made zero sense. If it’s okay (which i agree) for everyone to teach their children their own culture… why are you saying that’s not okay in the U.S.??? The U.S. is made up of many different cultures. Those cultures have the right to NOT teach their children only white European and Euro-American culture, but to instill pride and awareness of their own cultural legacies both here in the States and in their home countries. They also NEED to know the ways in which this country has disenfranchised them in the past and continues to do so. There is a huge difference between playing the victim and being aware of the ways you are devalued in this society. You also fail to understand this law in the context of other laws that are being made, and in the lived reality of Latino/as (and other poc) in this country. And you know, i’m not even Latina and i totally understand this issue…

“Por la raza todo fuera de la raza nada!”

It sounds like the Spanish equivalent of “Deutschland uber alles”.

IndigenousWomyn

Have you taken all history courses to know that all history courses teach the superiority of “white folk”? Obviously not. I’ve taught history classes and I never taught any such thing. It’s obvious that “white folk” are not superior at anything but growing skin cancer. They do excel at that.

What do you think of the ideas of Reconquista and Aztlan? What is the difference between what MEChA teaches and what Fascists racists of other ethnic groups teach? What do you think of people who shout either “Viva la raza!” or “Seig Heil”? And what, really, is the difference besides their choice of skin color?

I agree that people from all cultures form American society, but this hardly means that the United States is not a Western country at heart. Furthermore, if the assumption within my argument is that the United States is a Western country, then my argument certainly did make sense–there is no reason to say that it did not.

From my understanding, I believe it is beyond dispute that the United States is a Western country. From the colonial period onward, predominantly British settlers in America replicated the social arrangements of Great Britain. Present-day America’s ostensible commitment to individual liberty was born of the eighteenth-century British notion of no taxation without representation, and supplemented by the teachings of the eighteenth-century Enlightenment.

To offer some “context,” I might add that Mexico has followed a slightly different trajectory than its northern neighbor. Built upon the ruins of Mesoamerican civilizations and the saddled with the legacy of heavy-handed Spanish rule, Mexico has, in the two centuries since its independence, striven to establish a republic of freedom-loving, independently-minded citizens. The Mexican experience has essentially been a struggle between the quest for individual liberty and reactionary, strong authoritarian government. Fortunately, democracy has gradually been gaining the upper hand in Mexico, and I hope it can be completely instilled into the hearts and minds of future Mexicans.

Thus, just we Mexicans certainly want immigrants in our country to adopt Mexican cultural and philosophical values, I am sure that people in the United States must also want immigrants to their country to adhere to American cultural values. It only seems fair to me.

Also, John–check out what “la raza” really means sometime. *the people* is sooooooo not the same thing as “the white race” or even “the brown race.”

Hell no… i am not even bothering to try to dialogue with John. Racista…

Las mujeres aquí tienen más paciencia que mí. i’m not even gonna play…

@ Marco-
I hear you, about working hard and forging ahead. I think we’re all doing that, at least I’m trying to. But I’ll tell you one thing, the Mexican culture I knew growing up was not about flaunting anything. It was about being humble and giving thanks for what little we had, sharing it with family and friends. If my grandparents and their grandparents caught me flaunting anything they’d be the first to kick my ass. Actually if they read these words they’d kick my asss for saying “ass”..

So I think the whole flaunting your power thing is that part of Mexican culture that still has its head up its ass and is trying too too hard to be white and rich. good luck with that circus.

“So long as Mexican parents who have made the trek northward continue to instill traditional Mexican values (and Mexican history) into the hearts and minds of their young children, there should be no danger of these customs dying out or affecting the self-esteem of students, no matter what goes on in the classroom. (Incidentally, I have met a number of U.S.-born children of Mexicans who can’t speak a word of Spanish, and who think Cinco de Mayo is Mexico’s independence day, which is highly unfortunate… but that is a story for another day!)”

i totally feel you on this Marco. But that’s not reality. Ok, por ejemplo, i have a friend my age (mid 30s) who was born & raised here. His parents did not teach him Spanish because at that time, here in our locale, it was believed that it would hold him back. So, now, he struggles to learn because when he has children he wants them to learn. Wouldn’t it be awesome though if that was part of their schooling, especially considering the sheer volume of Latinos in the area? Un otro ejemplo, mi ex-esposo… that side of the family is Nicaraguan. One of my step daughters had a baby with a first-generation Mexican (mom is Mexican migrant, dad is white). Boy knows no Spanish and is ashamed of being Mexican in most cases, except when he’s trying to posture his manhood. Gets in my girl’s face for speaking to the baby in Spanish. Because a) he can’t understand, and b) he is ashamed and doesn’t want his kids speaking it. So, new generation comes up with all this culture that has already been thrust to the wayside.

Here’s the thing: we aren’t just talking about those who just came up and are raising their kids strong in the culture. We are talking about those who are already 2, 3, maybe more, generations removed from their culture. And i would strongly say that this applies to more than just Mexicans, more than just Latinos.

Mi familia, we are indigenous. My son, his father was of the same tribe as me. My son is 3/4 indigenous. But his father and i were both adopted by white people. We had to fight like hell to find out what tribe we were (and were genuinely shocked to find out it was the same tribe, LOL) and could not get sufficient proof to be added to the tribal rolls in any case. We lost our language. We live far away from our own tribe, in the land of other tribes, so we’ve struggled to reclaim the traditions of our own tribe. We’ve struggled to find information on our own tribe. We struggle (God rest him, my husband no longer has to face this struggle anymore) to raise our son knowing his culture, and we are not able to give him all of it. So my son goes to school where what is taught about the indigenous of this land is so little, so flawed, so whitewashed. How is he supposed to retain pride in his heritage if, despite all my best efforts, the WORLD tells him that he is nobody? That his people and culture are dead? That there is no value to our art, our stories, etc? That all he can ever hope to be is another drunk indio who goes to prison eventually? Because that’s what the schools tell him. That his choice is to either completely give up being indigenous, embrace the white culture fully, or be a loser who will never amount to anything. He is taught to be ashamed of his father, ashamed of his mother, ashamed of his ancestors. He is taught that we contributed nothing to this country. He KNOWS differently because we are strong and able to tell him differently. But how much weight does our home teaching really give him compared to the lessons he gets out in society? i carry a Spanish accent (even though my spanish is lousy, LOL). He is constantly reminded that i am a lower life form – i am Muslim, i am indigenous, i speak “funny” and in a mix of languages, and i am too outspoken. He takes teasing constantly at school, from peers and adults alike, for his parents. So at what point will he fall prey to them? Start believing what they say more than he believes what he has been taught at home?

Yes, we have a responsibility to teach our children our cultures. But damn, do we not pay taxes and have a right to say what we want them taught in school as well? That we want a well-rounded multi-cultural, multi-ethnic outlook and awareness available to them? The way history is taught right now… it is so whitewashed, so false. When laws like this are passed, they tell us that our history and culture don’t matter. That it is trash that our children should discard. We can be hard working and forging ahead and all that – but we don’t have to throw aside who we are to do that.

Yes, I know what “Reconquista” means and what “La Raza” mean. Their literal translations are obvious. But how are they used? “Reconquista” assumes that California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, parts of Utah and Colorado really belong to Mexico and that they should be returned to Mexico. If that is true, and it very well may be, what would that accomplish? Would the people who live in those areas benefit from the return of these lands and the return of all of those lives to the control of the Mexican government? Would the people be more prosperous, have more rights, have more freedom than they do now? These are interesting questions to propose.

The values of traditional Mexican people are wonderful. But there are extremists among Mexicans just like there are extremists among any other group of people. I will not agree with any of those extremists who would prop up their people as superior to any other group in essence. Of course some peoples are better at things than others, and that’s fine. For example, when I was a small child my single mom and I moved into a neighborhood which was about half white and half brown. My mother told me “Now listen, the only difference between you and these people is that they have better food.” She’d experienced racism herself and didn’t want me to have any part of it. My argument is not against a race of people, but an ideology of extremism. I will never agree with “For our race everything, for the rest nothing.” No matter who says it.

John–it’s not for our race everything. the translation is *people*. Which is actually quite radical in a good way, because it means *humanity first*–for those of us who are *humans*. Regardless of sex, gender, sexuality, race, ethnicity, etc.

and honest to god, what in the hell chance do you think this “reconquista” every has of happening? really? most chican@ activists don’t even agree w/reconquista–it’s something dreamed up in the 70′s, and about equal to a faded dream at the moment. What 99.9% of the chicanos I know are organizing against is workers abuses, immigration related imprisonments and university defunding in california. Aztlan is mentioned oh, um, never. And these are activists in the california, texas and arizona area.

When you have things like racial profilling and work place round ups happening, how logical is it to try to push a “build a new nation” agenda? I mean really.

But it sounds scary, and just like the news can always find at least one scary white guy screaming profanities at an Obama rally, they can find one scary mexican screaming nationalism and Aztlan.

If you knew us, and you knew the work we are doing, rather than hearing about us on media ouletts that have vested interests in stoking flames that aren’t there, you’d know this.

70s brown power nationalism is still there, but the “reconquista” version of it has died almost completely in most organizing circles and is little more than interesting history in the rest of the community.

It’s propoganda media looking for a hot story that won’t let it be buried.

(and like I said, yes, there are individuals here and there that subscribe fully to that agenda. but *organizers* and *activists* that are accountible to community are accountable to finding solutions that actually work and have some relevence to people’s lives. What does aztlan have to do for a woman who just got rounded up in a work place raid, in other words?)

SO that whole–don’t paint an entire community with one brush stroke that you pointed to in your comment? Might do you well to apply it to your own logic as well.

Indigenous… And you are assuming a great deal about me too, aren’t you, like “He must not speak any Spanish, this racista guero!” LOL Of course I don’t know how you feel. But the anger sure shows in your posts here. you aren’t angry? Really? Well, I’m not “embarazada” and never will be or could be.

Like I said, I am not arguing against learning about cultures. i am simply saying that I do not support racism from anyone. If that makes you think I have a “lot of nerve” I do! I like to say what I mean and mean what I say.

And just so you get a little clearer picture of things, I am not “white”.

John John John… you are such an asshole. i never said you are white. And your own arguments prove that you don’t really speak much Spanish. That’s not an assumption, that is proven by your pathetic arguments about what words “obviously” translate to. Also, i didn’t say i’m not angry. Of course i’m angry and i have every right to be. That is not the same thing as “bitter”, nor does my anger at white supremacy equal being “bitter at all white folks”. i am answering to your actual points, refuting your actual words. Now first of all, you need to know what the word “racism” means. Because it requires a power structure that Latinos in Arizona (or anywhere else in this country) simply do not have. Learning about their own culture in school is not racist. The fact that we all have to learn – exclusively – white Euro-American culture in school is what *is* racist. The fact that what little history & culture is taught about people of color in this country is patronizing, dishonest and sanitized at best, overtly disrespectful and denying of our contributions more often, that is racist. You say you don’t support racism, but all of your comments show quite clearly that you have bought into the idea that anyone having any awareness of and pride in their own culture makes them an extremist. Funny how a few rare extremist people in any group of poc (and i’m not even personally going to say i agree or disagree with your definition of extreme) is “extremist”. In fact, what is going on in Arizona right now (and being proposed elsewhere) is what is extreme, and it’s called white supremacy. You are defending white supremist extremism. Your own words speak for themselves, no assumptions made on my part. i’m done with you. Nothing i say is going to convince you of anything, and you certainly can’t convince me.

Great article. Totally agree. Gringos have to be aware of other ethnic experiences, especially the ones that happened “on their watch”, so to speak. Take it from this Ruso here! Respect, to all my Latino neighbors.
Rememeber the Alamo? Remember your own history, and pay respects to the natives, for starters, if you profess some “culture and manners”. Try learning from people who were here first, no matter their economic development or your Western perception of their “democracy”. Your own democracy is a cheap puta sold out to the highest corporate bidder, and you pass it for “western values”? I mean, at least be intellectually honest. I mean, is it even constitutional? Will they have to burn the books and goose step? Ooups..I have seen this somewhere already…

I havent heard “pantaletas” since the last time i went to see my gramma.. jajaja

Sabina, and all others:

It seems to me, and I mean no offense to any bloggers who write radically, that many people, in the blogosphere, believe that the Latino-based blogs are representative of Latinos as a whole. Given my own experiences in the U.S. among latinos and a general common sense standard, documented or not, the many academic issues raised on latino blogs are NOT representative of the greater Latino population. Remember, we live in the United States, where political apathy seems to be more the norm than not.

I dunno; I know that at, for example, the March in D.C., the majority of participants were Latino. But it’s still unclear to me the extent of the political apathy amongst Latinos. In other words, if anyone in the States is living large, regardless of race, they are more likely to be apathetic or active to the extent it is necessary to defend the living large part.

Some of you are in such denial about your own racism that you empty your toilets onto the screen and think you’re going to be respected for that. Go ahead and hate white people, if you like. Go ahead and think I’m a racist because I point out the extremists in this struggle. That’s your right. But don’t expect respect until you are a respectable person.

Indigenous.. you made your point very well. I have absolutely no respect for anything you say, maja.

(Mala edited because of misspelling of Indigenous).

Sabina… and what have I said that is “loony tunes”?

Sorry, my above post should have read:

Indigenous … you made your point very well. I have absolutely no respect for anything you say, mija.

Typo!

(Edited by la Mala for misspelling)

John,

May I make the strong suggestion that you refrain from using terms like “mi’ja” when making comments directly to women on the site. Unless you know them it comes off as demeaning and disrespectful

Bryan,

I don’t disagree that as a media maker ( I tend to reject the word blogger), I have certain privileges that others in my communities do not (access to tech, knowing how to use tech etc), that said before I was a blogger, I was part of a larger community of Latinos who are not apathetic. I live in a community of people who are keenly aware of the issues going on. There are a few things to remember, politics here looks nothing like politics in Latin America. It looks damn sad in fact and I know many of my immigrant friends have tuned out the “reform” movements because they see them as bullshit. Alot of their efforts have been focused on art and culture as means for survival and creating cultural legacies and connections. That work should not be diminished.

Meagan,
After she called me “racist” and “asshole”, I think “Mija” is fairly benign. Ironic, isn’t it?

Meagan,
Sorry, I typed that before I saw you address the filthy word.
And yesl, if one is a “racist” then it is not a slur. I’ve met them in person. I had a confrontation with a white neo Nazi skinhead in person once and told him off in front of a crowd of people. I called him a thug and a racist both. But there was evidence that he was a racist. I think that the person who used the term had no evidence to support it. So while it may not be a “slur” for some people in this case it’s a lie.

Just a little background…

In the early 2000s I worked in central California organizing mostly Hispanic people to fight for human rights among farm workers. Some Philippinos and Anglos were involved too. But most were undocumented peoples from Mexico and Central America. They picked fruit and vegetables. Many of these people lived in garages rented to them by people who could afford a house. There were be 10 to 15 people crammed into a garage with no sanitary facilities or place to cook. Most of them didn’t know how much they were earning because the farm companies paid their rent directly to their landlords and then gave them a little “credit card” which they could use only at certain stores in town. I helped them to organize and got speakers to confront the city council, law enforcement and other community organizations and churches about their conditions.

Ironically one of the groups which opposed us was “MEChA”. They called us racists because we were challenging the farm owners, who were mostly Latinos. One night an owner of a small restaurant asked to speak to me in private. He told me that one of the leaders of “MEChA”, who also worked teaching Ethnic Studies at the local city college, was one of the landlords for these undocumented workers. He had 14 young men living in his garage without allowing them the use of a toilet. He did, however, allow them to clean themselves with his garden hose in the back yard. I thought this less than generous of him.

So when I hear about people who want to accuse people of racism and preach a radical agenda I am often suspicious. Perhaps you can see why.

Megan,
I agree completely with you there. It certainly isn’t unique to MEChA or any other organization or movement. This is, however, why I am very wary of extremists, whether they are of one organization or another, one movement, group, race, culture or another. Extremism is rarely a good thing.

The so-called Bill is illegal and I and my colleagues would like to challenge this state act of Apartheid under international law. This Bill is clearly unlawful as it violates the right of the African Americans and Mexicans freedom of expression. I have just completed a book called “The Right to a Political Identity” and the only thing that the Arizona Legislature is correct about is that the atrocities by the U.S and Arizona against the Africans and Mexicans is so extensive that if History was taught correctly, it would engender restorative justice.

Under a free educational system it would soon be discovered that the Africans, Mexicans, and Indians come out of the same ancient peoples. We now have proof that the oldest human existence in the Americas was African. (Please google ‘Luzia skeletal’, found in Brazil). The fear of the Arizona legislature and most of Anglo-America is that we find out that people of color in the United States are closely related and that we have all been oppressed by the Anglo Americans.

The entire American educational system has been revised so that people of color remain powerless. We can look at Harvard Professor’s Louis Gates recent article to understand the type of ‘revisionist scholarship’ that is being taught in the American system. In order to fight oppression we must understand why it is important to be ourselves under the framework of self-determination and Indigenous rights.

This is “The New Framework” of what the African Americans internationalist understand the deceived of knowledge commonly call “Reparations”.

There a few misconceptions (errors?) in your comment Roberto.

First, you fail to deal with the issue of institutional racism. I would disagree completely with your assertion that no one considers the immigration laws of Europe racist. I would remind you of the uprisings in France a few years ago. I would also draw your attention to Spain and your own country, Italy.

Second, I don’t know what you mean by original Africans and I’m pretty sure that none of the editors/writers here identify as such.

Third, the fact that you claim that Mexicans want special attention proves that you have taken the bait. You have accepted the rhetoric that immigration is brown and brown is Mexican. The experiences of Italians who came to the US towards the turn of the 20th century has parallels to the current situation yes except it fails to deal with the U.S history of intervention in Latin America and how that also has impacted anti-latino sentiment.