VivirLatino

Bullying is what it is; with enough "inducement" (fear), the facts can be smushed into the prejudged "truth".
Hate to say it but it's truly a symptom of fascism.
Nice "democracy" we have.

I agree Julia, this is just terrible. And now there is another raid that just happened in RI--hopefully these elections will bring some changes.

You guys really crack me up. With all this trumped up hardship forced an someone who violated the immigration codes. Folks my brother in law was a border guard in Chiapas for almost 2 years he had to quit because he couldn't stomach the nastiness the mexicans committed on the Guatemalans and Hondurans..........Give me a break. Its the illegals and their disrespect and arrogance concerning immigration laws of the USA that give those of us that did things the right way a bad reputation

Well, this isn't Chiapas. And I don't think we have to wait until it is like Chiapas to decide things need to change.

We could argue all day over whether or not a person with no papers has the right to be here or not. But as long as it is considered a criminal act to be here without papers, then I have to ask why do we not endorse massive work raids to round up those who did not renew their driver's licenses? Or those who smoked pot before they left for work? Or those who beat their wives?

Surely those people are just as guilty as representing the rest of us poorly--should we be consist with our treatment of those suspected of wrong doing?

I have no problem with arresting people for such infractions you mentioned if that is what the penalty is. Where the issue lies is that when these people come before the judge they will make all kinds of claims to keep from being deported. Like having a child is going to exempt someone from the penalty prescribed for no drivers license or no insurance or pot smoking. Could you imagine someone saying "But your honor I have a child you can't fine me that much" If you can't do the time don't do the crime

But do you have a problem with the government going into a random place of employment, rounding up all the workers (not the bosses, mind you) and arresting all of them--for like I mentioned above--not renewing drivers licenses?

I am more than willing to agree to disagree with you when it comes to whether or not people should be crossing across the border or living here without papers, I understand that everybody has their own opinions on that--but I *do* think it's really important to ask what precedents it sets to allow the government to make raids on workers at their place of employment (citizens and legal residents have been rounded up and subjected to interrogation because of these raids), and I also think that there needs to be a humanitarian set protocol on how people are treated once in custody.

The fact is, totally innocent people have been subjected to imprisonment and arrests for things that they have not done--and that alone should be enough for ALL of us to demand that anybody who is rounded up be treated humanly.

As far as workplace raids go, lets just say it is at the jobsite where it becomes obvious that workers are using fraudulent documents. I would say rampant felonious use of fraudulent ss no's is ample excuse to conduct a workplace investigation. If lots of people were smoking pot at work I would say that would be ample reason for a raid as well.
As far as being treated humanely I agree with that but humanely doesn't mean exemption from the consequences of your actions. I could say lots of things that come to mind right now about the illegals but I like you and don't want to be banned for being hateful

As far as workplace raids go, lets just say it is at the job site where it becomes obvious that workers are using fraudulent documents. I would say rampant felonious use of fraudulent ss no's is ample excuse to conduct a workplace investigation. If lots of people were smoking pot at work I would say that would be ample reason for a raid as well.

but actually, both of these are issues that are pertinent to *employers* not the workers--for example, I can attempt to write a bad check, but if the five different stores where I write the check use a checking machine and decline my check, I will not be arrested for attempting to write bad checks. Same for S.S.--it is the *employer* that is entrusted by law to check the legality of the documents that they are using. If there is one or two people who have fraudulent numbers at a workplace, I could believe that the employer was not aware of the falsification. If there are 80, 100, 200 people, however, I would not only say that the employer was well aware of the falsification, but was probably helping to falsify--and as such, the employer should be held legally responsible for hiring.

And I think we also have to consider the aspect of how the threat of massive raids can be used to silence those workers who are unionizing or the such--in the latest raid, employees were trying to organize. In the postville raids, employees were cooperating with the state, who was investigating work place abuses.

And to go to the example of huge amounts of pot being used in the workplace--this recently happened on the airlines, they found that there was an overwhelming use of drugs by piolots, and it was the *employers* that were held responsible, not the employees (although they were in a backhanded way, they were fired).

In short, the government is not my boss. The government does not have the right to hire me or fire me. Nor does it have the right to act as my boss's thugs either (like the old time Pinkerton officers).

And I just think that when we are all too eager to through the book at people who are here without documentation, we throw the baby out with the bathwater--we give too many of our rights up.

As far as blaming employers I agree with you 100% but lets not forget the fact that by law employers are prohibited from inquiring in too much detail the validity of documents from a potential employee so in theory the "rights" you are so in favor of protecting also protect the employer. Just a few months back a Federal judge blocked DHS from mailing more than 100,000 letters of potential ID fraud to employers. Thus protecting the employer.
Now as far as Employers not having to pay the consequences of hiring illegals I think that is wrong. With that said If I got caught driving without Insurance and there was a guy caught selling false "ID's" that did not get punished I do not think the very fact that someone else didn't get punished exempts me from the penalties of my actions thats just ludicrous

Actually, employers are unable to check for valid documents. The law holds them accountable if their workplace is raided and illegal immigrants are found there, but they have no way to do checks on applicants during the hiring process. Also, if they do find out that someone is illegal and refuse to hire them, the employer can be charged with discrimination. Now where's the justice in THAT? If we're going to solve this issue of immigration--or at least handle raids better--the nation needs to take a position and go from there. No more beating around the bush.